Death does not concern us
I was reading a book and I ended up reading bt Epicurus, Greek philospher. His is a very interesting philosophy, one that we all have thought about at one point or the other. Writing this post to get people's comments on the same.
Epicurus believed that materialistic philosohpy could relieve human fear of death and punishment of gods. "Death does not concern us" he said. "For as long as we live, death is not here. And when death comes, we are no longer alive" . He summed up his philosophy by what he called the four healing herbs. "The gods are not to be feared. Death is nothing to worry about. The good is easy to attain. The frightful is easy to bear ."
Thoughts are welcome.
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1 – 200 of 672 Newer› Newest»"For as long as we live, death is not here. And when death comes, we are no longer alive" ---
Kaka immortalized this in Anand ... that sexy shayari at the end ... thoughts abt it in general later on
Was just thinking today that u shud be banned from the blog coz of ur inactivity...but the man has saved his ass thyair!
Building on bailya's comment...Kaka imbibed the philosophy in Disco Dancer :-)
We are taught not to fear death since that is the ultimate truth. Your body has to perish. Also we are taught to fear God since that brings a certain amount of discipline in our lives.There is nothing wrong or right..its just the school of thought that is different. If we just lead our materialistic life and are not able to find out the very purpose why we are born, for me that is a strict no-no. Also I have not done anything towards self realization but I guess thinking about it at the least is a good beginning.So I dont agree with his philosophy of carrying on with the mundane..but thats just my two cents.
Death is feared by someone who is going to die ...
Why does discipline have to come from the fear of something ? Why shouldnt we be doing things because we want them that way .. the way we think they are correct .. rather because God might consider it bad .
Well, in this context , materialistic life means .. we should not be worrying bt after lifes and the likes . rather concentrate on what we want in what we have control over right now - life. Finding the purpose of why we were/are born should have no binding to the so called afterlife , should it ?
You misunderstand the philosophy, to me , it seems more like making and doing things we want to while we have control over ourselves and not worry about death and after lifes.
Agree with Marw, Aup I think you have it wrong. My two cents on the issue - Are Gods really so frivoulus, spiteful and raring for vengeance that not a trifle shall go unpunished. Is it God's writ to get offended on things miniscule or gigantic? What kind of God is it? Is it really God then or just me!
+Anadi
doesnt that make us think about the very concept of God ... y would God be concerned with what we do ... would God still have desires ... would He still have the inclination to punish the bad for his evil and reward the good for his virtues ... who is God and more importantly what is God ?
sorry if this comment was a bit tangential to the ongoing discussion ... but couldnt help it
I feel that death does not concern us. Epicurus says it correctly, "for as long as we live death is not there". But, I think we fear death more from a consequence point of view rather than dying. What will happen if I die ... is the question one asks and thts why he fears Death. He imagines things like his family, his possessions -- material as well as emotional things and thts why one is afraid .. It is the inherent nature of a human being to be in control always -- control even after dying.
I guess, philosophers basically, try to imbibe the spirit of being less in control and more carefree.
--KK
how can someone be less in control and still be more carefree ... my idea of a carefree person is a person totally in control
Meant not trying to control the future
Totally agree with Vishal on his point. I agree I may have gone tangential to the discussion but that was only because I got carried away by your statement
"He believed that materialistic philosophy could relieve human fear..."
Since I have not read the whole book, I thought that he was preaching materialism...but he wasnt. By your retort I conclude that in the end, his philosophy meets the same philosophy that the man who is at total peace is the man who is in control of his needs, his self, his thoughts and actions. ..KarmaYoga 101
It is absolutely not necessary for a carefree person to be in control...the exact terminology for a carefree person without being in control is a 'Wastrel'
but i dont think thats what the philosophers meant ...
carefree - somebody who is free of worries .. and one can never be free of worries unless he is in total control of himself .. hence .. person needs to be totally in control to really be carefree . methinks.
btw, anoop, the book i was reading wasnt on epicurus .. this was the only paragraph mentioned about him. the comments are just what i interpreted out of the text.
Carefree (according to Dictionary.com) is somebody free of worries and 'responsibilities'. If somebody doesnt care abt his responsibilities how is he in control?
according to u who do u think is in control ?
well, free of responsibilties is one who doesnt think he is answerable to anybody for anything. how much more in control could be of one's own self.
it is only once u start feeling answerable for things u do that you start losing control over urself. because then others start controlling what you do .. u have to live ur life as others want you to .. and that is not being carefree.
My thoughts:
Marw, But u still are answerable to your soul.
Carefree as Balls pointed out is free of worries and responsibilities.
Worry:-
Doesnt all of us worry abt lot of things ... Job / Money / Family. But does anybody worry about present .. NO .. Everyone worries about future events. What if I lose a job .. wht will happen to me in the future or will happen to my family ...
Responsibilities :-
I need to do this thing for my family. You are not answerable to anyone for it, but it is ur sense of responsibilty which u impose on urself. Afterall, the only person ur answerable to is ur soul.
But how does this connect with death and the earlier discussion?
We assume that doing an activity today will somehow affect the future so you will be able to worry less and do all ur duties and responsibilities.
And then you ask a question what if I die? tht throws a spanner into ur plans ... ur idea of controlling the future which lessens your worries / responsibilities is thrown out of gear
now I may seem a contradictory .. here if ur dead wht are the worries and responsibilites ... u need to worry abt ... thts when u start worring abt who will complete your responsibilities ..
So i guess wht the philosophers of yore mean is that stop trying to think that your actions of today will influence your future for better tomorrow.
"Death is nothing to worry about"
But do my actions of today influence my future at all ???
If not ... why do those actions at all ... u can say dont expect anything and keep on doing ur actions ... but that in no way mean that my actions of today dont influence my future
an afterthought ... if I am answerable to my soul ... then who am I ?
Actions do influence the future. (urs or someone else's .. u never know) How does it influence I guess is unknown? Actions have to be done ... but worrying when the future is not affected in the same way as u desired .. I guess is wht the philospher intends us to discard.
I guess expect nothing and just act is not for everyone .. one who does it ... well is great.
Well you are answerable to your soul always.
You are a person made by your choices in life. Your soul does not make choices ... thts wht i think. It just says to you if its right or wrong.
Im sorry Vishal...totally dont get what ur trying to drive thru here...its either the way uve put it across or my bad. Anyways I firmly believe that ur actions of today are wat u have in store for the future...a couple of small examples ...
1.You chase a huge target and amble on at ur own sweet pace. The future is messed up for you...u wud have to make a mighty quich dash to reach the target/goal. Whereas if u wudve had a bright start ur making ur chance better
2.You eat a helluva lot of sweets,junk food today...it certainly does reflect in the future when u put on a lot of weight.
kausum said ... "stop trying to think that your actions of today will influence your future for better tomorrow"
so I replied back saying it does affect ... and u r saying the same thing I wanted to say ... maybe its just the way i put it
Vishal, I did get that and replied accordingly.
To answer Anadi's question.
Are Gods really so frivoulus, spiteful and raring for vengeance that not a trifle shall go unpunished. Is it God's writ to get offended on things miniscule or gigantic? What kind of God is it? Is it really God then or just me!
The answer is NO. A sense of fear for God is instilled within us when we are young and that is just because we are not capable enough to think about leave alone attain the truth. Krishna said that Bhakti Yoga (rituals in the meanest sense) is the best for a man when he is young and incapable of thinking. So,it is good to have that fear till you have the understanding that your actions of today will manifest as a reaction sometime later in your life ( Karma Yog), this or the next.So your fear for doing something wrong should not come as a thought of being punished by God, but as a realization of the inherent cause-effect (As ye sow , so shall ye reap) philosophy.
Agreed completely, but then is there a life after death? Is there a huge scale in the sky somewhere that measures our deeds? Are bad deeds guaranteed to get punished sometime? better still, are good deeds guaranteed to get some good in return?
What is good or bad? Didn't somebody say, one man's nightmare is another man's dream? What happens to powerful philosophies like Islam, where they teach people to kill a kafir and secure a place for themselves and family in heaven and most interestingly, to find themselves in bed with a few virgins (wow ;-))!
I remember a famous quote "Bhaye bina preeti nahin", "no respect/love without fear"! Is it really true? The fact that I am incapable of thinking straight or I am too frivilous should not mean that I have to be afraid of the thing that I perhaps choose or am blissfully ignorant about!
Aup, I really have no counter argument to your point, but is fear a good tool, granted that it is a handy one!
+Anadi
(I hope I have not changed the flow completely)
Very nice comment Anoop. And I completely agree abt the Bhakti Yog part. But there are two things.
1) because of this fear thats instilled in us during childhoo, most people end up following the same all their lives.
2) i am nto sure.. if we should be doing things by the "As you so so shall ye reap " philosophy. that too is some kind of fear in itself. it should more have to do with what we think is correct. well, i know i am hoping for Utopia.
And I again totally agree with goli's point -- who and what defines good and bad; its all a matter of personal interpretation.
I completely agree with goli sirjee ... how effective/fruitful can something be thats been out of fear ... you should enjoy the journey, not just the destination ... methinks!
Wonderful Comments both Anoop and Anadi.
Is there life after death?
I dunno, however, if we suppose that there is life after death, after death, we no longer have our body, so it is only the soul which is there.
Are deeds guaranteed to get their suitable rewards?
If the soul is the only one which reaches the sky, then, it faces the consequences of the actions done my mortals on earth. However, do we assume that the deeds done on earth are wht is done my mortals only and the soul has no influence on the decisions or does it have?
If the rewards of the deeds are received in the afterlife than wht is the use ? Shouldnt the deeds be rewarded or punished in the same life. Doesnt that represent fairness or are we missing some huge link in the entire cycle of life and death?
more bt epicurus from wikipedia ..
quoting
Epicurus' teachings represented a departure from the other major Greek thinkers of his period, and before, but was nevertheless founded on many of the same principles as Democritus.
He admitted women and slaves into his school, emphasized the senses in his epistemology, and was one of the first Greeks to break from the god-fearing and god-worshipping tradition common at the time, even while affirming that religious activities are useful as a way to contemplate the gods and to use them as an example of the pleasant life.
He is best known for advocating the pursuit of or indulgence in pleasure with a guilt-free attitude as a necessary moral good. He did not advocate over-indulgence, however, saying that the greatest pleasure is merely the absence of pain. All other pleasures are simply variation. There are connections to the philosophies of Ayn Rand and Osho as well as Zen.
The most known Epicurian verse, which epitomizes the Epicurian philosophy, is lathe biōsas λάθε βιώσας (Plutarchus De latenter vivendo 1128c; Flavius Philostratus Vita Apollonii 8.28.12), meaning "live secretly", "get through life without drawing attention to yourself", i. e. live without pursuing glory or wealth or power, but anonymously, enjoying little things like food, the company of friends etc.
death is death that is experincedby all who had been dead that can't be explained by we who perhas not experienced .but death is a black&white.
death is death that is experinced by all who had been dead that can't be explained by we who perhas not experienced .but death is a black&white.
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